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Poster: lip11 Date: Dec 10, 2005 1:13pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: help with The Eleven

I'm with you. I think the 11 is an amazing composition.
The version on "Live Dead" sets a standard, but of course there are many other great versions. It's too bad they dropped it from their repertoire, although it's such an intense piece that it seemed to become an anachronism in the 70's .

I asked a friend of mine who's a professional recording jazz/blues musician how to play the 11 and I played a couple versions for him for review, including Live Dead. He said, "Either you memorize how Jerry does it in that particular version, or don't bother." Hmmmm.

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Poster: Grtfl Prophet Date: Dec 11, 2005 6:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: help with The Eleven

This song came up between a friend and I the other day, and the reason it seems so amazing compostionaly is that they use an odd timing. I believe its 3-3-3-2. hence, The Eleven. I am no musician, but found this to be rather interesting, anybody else know anything about this?

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Poster: tennesseejed Date: Dec 11, 2005 6:42am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: help with The Eleven

I believe the song is written in 11:4 time--very difficult to play!

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Poster: jhender501 Date: Dec 12, 2005 2:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: help with The Eleven


I wish I understood enough about music theory to understand just what 11/4 means and why it's difficult!


Jim

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Poster: dyllabox Date: Dec 12, 2005 2:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: help with The Eleven

in time signatures the top number represents the number of beats to a measure and the bottom dictates what note value gets the value. The Eleven is actually 11/8. The reason why it is 11/8 and not 11/4 is because the pulse is too quick to be a quarter note(4). Technically, you could call it 11/4, but it would be hard to read if a musician transcribed it.

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Poster: Grtfl Prophet Date: Dec 12, 2005 5:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: help with The Eleven

wow, well i guess i was way off then?... do u have any idea what this buddy of mine was talking about when he came up with the 3-3-3-2 deal?

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Poster: dyllabox Date: Dec 12, 2005 5:36am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: help with The Eleven

When there are enough beats in a measure, there become several ways to "count" them. 6/8 can be counted 1-2-3-2-2-3 instead of 1-2-3-4-5-6. This is slightly easier because it divides the measure and thus all you have to think about are 3 beats with the bass drum starting the first set of 3 and the snare starting the second. Counts within the measure usually end up being 2,3, or 4. What determines the count is the melody. For example many Jane's Addiction songs (such as Go) are counted 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2 even though they are 4/4 and 8/8. Anyway, the eleven is a classic 6/8 tune with the second measure losing a beat.

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Poster: jhender501 Date: Dec 12, 2005 4:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: help with The Eleven


Thanks..I understand the 11 beats to a measure, sort of..actually, one night after having ingested a popular
hallucinagin and watching a friend's dead cover band I
had it all figured out and it made perfect sense. Unfortunately I can't remember much of what I'd figured out

I wish I'd kept up my attempts at playing guitar.

Jim

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Poster: Jim F Date: Dec 10, 2005 8:06pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: help with The Eleven

There are many great versions of this excellent song. 10/12/68. or was that 10/13? the one with the cuts at the beginning of Dark Star, and new potato.

also like 3/15/69, 8/28/68, 3/16/68, 2/11/69, 2/28/69, 5/24/69, 6/14/69, 2/5/70. Man, i love em all...

This post was modified by Jim F on 2005-12-11 04:05:55

This post was modified by Jim F on 2005-12-11 04:06:54